Groups vs. Teams - Why having an owner group is useless and stupid

[Aaron113]

I have never actually posted in this topic, so I'm going to put my two cents in for anyone reading this.

I believe in adding what ever groups you want to Garry's Mod.  Garry's Mod is built to be modified.  You can build an entire game inside this game.  What's stopping you from adding an Owner group?  The answer is nothing.  Almost everything can be modified to your liking, including an Owner group that is fully functional.

If anyone ever wants a nudge in the right direction, feel free to PM me.

[MrPresident]

You are correct, but when most addons and mods EXPECT superadmin to be the highest rank in the game, you are only inviting trouble by creating groups above superadmin.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it shouldn't be done.

The proof of this is the countless threads we've gotten over the years wondering why certain permissions don't work since they've not set up groups properly or because a conflicting addon is checking for superadmin.

[Conner Josh]

Why not keep both
Reason it perfectly fine

[Bubbie]

Why not keep both
Reason it perfectly fine

Because it doesn't make a difference. The owner's still going to try to put themself in an "owner" group, and still making a group higher than superadmin.

[Undercover Orange]

i have a group called owner only because i have tags that show up in chat saying what ulx group staff are in

[Buzzkill]

i have a group called owner only because i have tags that show up in chat saying what ulx group staff are in

In that case I would edit the chat tagging system to expressly set 'Owner' for a particular Steam ID  (the number of such instances would be manageable, since it's unlikely you have more than a handful of owners).  Or, alternatively, simply map superadmin to a different tag, assuming that all superadmins are owners and no owners aren't superadmins.

Long story short, I would do whatever relatively light work it takes to eliminate the need for an "owner" group above superadmin, since that approach almost always leads to pain somewhere down the line.

[Undercover Orange]

im also a prop hunt server so i should be fine

[Buzzkill]

im also a prop hunt server so i should be fine

Not sure what that has to do with it.    If you're saying that you don't run that many addons (which might make use of IsSuperAdmin(), which will fail to work as expected under an Owner-Above-SA group scenario), then yes..  I suppose..    Still not the best approach though, IMHO.

[iViscosity]

groups - This is a behind the scene, player tracking system for the purpose of assigning rights within the game and some addons/gamemodes.
A solution to this issue is to simple CALL the superadmin group 'Owner' if you wish.

I know this hasn't been posted on in a while, but reading through this just bothered me Not sure if there are any more, but I noticed this.

[MrPresident]

Hah! Good catch!

I was probably pretty steamed while writing this, as if I recall correctly, we were going through a period where a LOT of people were having issues with some DarkRP incompatibilities with their groups and all of those issues were caused by them renaming superadmin to owner or having groups higher than owner.

Some of those issues have been address in DarkRP or patched (with bandaids) by us... but the message of this post is still valid.

Also... I had no intention of this post being stickied when I wrote it.

[BraveNM22]

I like server owner
I don't really have a defense as to why besides the fact I prefer it over "Superadmin."
However when it comes to ranks this is how my server goes (Jailbreak)
user
admin (not used because jailbreak is weird)
Trail Mod
Mod
Admin2 (used because jailbreak is weird)
Senior Admin
Mentor
Head of Mod
Head of Admin
Head of Staff
Ast. Manager
Manager (Kinda superadmin to some)
superadmin (Unused)
Co-Owner
Owner

Some other stuff is sprinkled in there because of stuff that I decided to do on my own and not something that took inspiration off of something (Community Staff) but yeah. Idk my opinion. obviously its up to the coders to do their thing and its up to the server owners to do their thing.

[MrPresident]

You're missing the point of this post.

You can call the groups whatever you like. By default you can not visually see what UserGroup a player is in. It is up to an addon (like UTeam) or a gamemode to associate Teams with UserGroups.

It's fine if you want to create groups that inherit superadmin, but the point of this post was to inform that garrysmod will always see superadmin as the highest group and you may run into permission issues with other addons that weren't designed to work with how ULX handles groups. You may never have any issues, but you might.

For example.. I wanted my group that I am in on my server to be called "Developer" which is the highest rank in my community. My usergroup is still superadmin, but you don't see that anywhere because everything that displays "groups" associates superadmin with "Developer".

At least you choose not to use the superadmin group. That will certainly save you some potential headaches with hierarchy issues down the road.