Chaos/Tyguy ChatTag discussion

[tyguy]

For the record, this user copied my Chat Tags addon and said it was his.

This is mine:
http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1244672
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi...=125442043

[JamminR]

Place holder post.

See above, which was originally posted in response to a ChatTag's release by another member.
http://forums.ulyssesmod.net/index.php/topic,6196.0.html

All - first - this thread WILL remain CIVIL among all participants, or you will be banned one week (perhaps longer depending on lack of civility used)
No name calling, only legitimate review/nice discussion should be done.

[JamminR]

TyGuy, I've just spent about 30 minutes reviewing the code and links.
Though your cs_ct.lua file (from http://www.garrysmod.org/downloads/?a=view&id=133528, linked from your facepunch thread) and Chaos's cl_tag.lua from his manage_chat_tags.zip releaes file, for all intents and purposes, perform the same function, I see distinct differences in coding style and formatting.
I'd even go so far as to say, with no discourse intended to Chaos, that your version includes an additional check that is nice at preventing an error or two that might occur.

I believe, that though, yes, they are a Gmod function collision, they are different releases.
Do you have any evidence of otherwise?

[tyguy]

why do i need to explain myself? look at the comments, the table name - it all matches


not to mention that I can recognise my own code when I see it, and this is it 100% (minus the few simple if statements that he added)



Mine:


'his':


Does it not make sense to you why he said he can't add any 'fixes' to it because he 'quit' Garry's Mod?

[Bytewave]

In a theoretical sense, two coding styles could be exactly alike, though chances are pretty slim.
From what I can tell, Chaos is an honest user, and wouldn't do such a thing as plagiarizing code.
He may have used yours as a base; he may not have.
Either way, neither of you are making money off the addon, so does it truly matter?

Note: this is all my personal opinion, and should be taken with a grain of salt.

[Megiddo]

That does seem awfully similar, but let's hear from Chaos, too.

[Cobalt]

Either way, neither of you are making money off the addon, so does it truly matter?

Yes, as a matter of fact it does. Taking someone else's code and passing it off as your own is wrong, regardless if it is free or paid.

[Megiddo]

We (Team Ulysses) have certainly have had plenty of our code taken by others, so I empathize with others when that happens. One occurrence of code theft in particular comes to mind as hilarious in retrospect, though...

[tyguy]

It's extremely disrespectful and rude when someone takes your script and labels it as theirs without giving you no credit whatsoever. I wouldn't mind if it was just a link to the facepunch thread, though.

[JamminR]

Short Circuit, aka Twilight, please do not add to this discussion your opinions. As Cobalt states, it does matter, and we're simply trying to get to the bottom of it.
Unfortunately, your post seems to come across as trying to place tyguy on the defensive.
We're not trying to find opinions and get defensive. We're trying to find facts and truths.

Tyguy, Thanks for your input and additional information, and providing Chaos a method to provide you with some resolution if his was based on yours.
As to answer your question 'why should you have to explain yourself?',  - as much as it is a pain to do at times, we all sometimes have to defend our statements.
Claiming I'm an expert coder doesn't make it so, just like claiming, what may well be based on, your own work doesn't make it so automatically either.
You did bring up a point or two I missed that does raise extra question.

Megiddo, have we messaged Chaos to come and discuss here? I see he's not been active on the forums since Feb16.

[Bite That Apple]

Ever since my steam account was stolen, I no longer care for steam, garry's mod, or in that matter programming languages (including lua) anymore. I have no received an email from ULX forums in about 6 months, and I got tired of checking here, and there.

Anyways, as a reminder. I was given this code as a "godfather" view of lua, this the was the first thing I ever saw in LUA, and was the first thing I used as an example. I was given this by a friend of mine, saying if I could fix this and make it work better, and I said to just reply on the original post requesting for it to be fixed. He then replied back a few days later saying that no one responded (I didn't check, because I didn't really care, and I still don't really care). So I took my time in fixing this up for his server, and making it 'better', or more 'easier to handle'.


I didn't really think much of it, and if I have broken any rules upon this forum account, you may as you see fit to terminate this account or ban it... nothing really matters anymore. I was most likely just going to lock all my topics anyways, as I'm not going to fix them anymore, and I don't really plan to come back any time soon.


As a side note. I never really claimed to be the owner of this addon either, unlike some of my other addons I have actually made. I typically boast if I make them, but this one was just "there", and it serves no other purpose but to help this community with there servers.


As to you Mr. tyguy, I apologize for any inconvenience or harm this may have caused you. If you would like, I will remove the entire thread (if I'm not banned) upon your request, if you would like.


---------------

style and formatting.
I'd even go so far as to say, with no discourse intended to Chaos, that your version includes an additional check that is nice at preventing an error or two that might occur.

None taken, as I stated before, I was new at this, and I was just getting my head around how all this works.

From what I can tell, Chaos is an honest user, and wouldn't do such a thing as plagiarizing code.

I'm sorry to disappoint you. Though I guess I did actually plagiarize the code, but I never thought too much about it, as the user no longer updating his addon.


---------------


If my account is actually terminated/banned from the community, I only have to say a few words.

It was great to get to know most of you, and a lot of you were really helpful towards helping me and my questions, along with the people who posted on my addons with questions, and I was unable to assist them at that time, it was really nice of all of you. Thanks for all of you being a great community. Farewell

- Justin

[MrPresident]

Everyone has to start somewhere. I don't exactly remember my first code, but I'm certain that it was a modification of something someone else had made. Only difference is that I didn't re-release it.

The important thing here is that you were man enough to admit that you did borrow the base of your code from Tyguy. I really don't think there was any harm (at least none intended) here though.

The truth behind lua is that it's open-source. Lua is executed at run-time and there is no option to compile or obfuscate your code so people will always have full access to the source if you release it.

In a perfect world, everyone would give credit where it is due, and no one would steal or borrow code without permission.

The reality is, however, that because the general community of garrysmod is young people who have very little or no coding experience at all they will tend to modify and tweak/copy until they become proficient enough to write things on their own.

[JamminR]

I see no ban/termination reason here.
As MrPresident stated, many learn from modifying others.
Reviewing posts, including the 'pay me with Karma' requests, make it look as though they were totally your own.
A side-effect is that your releases may now be questioned as to how much of it is yours.

For any future release anywhere, be it lua or php or a writing document for school, if you've based on someone elses work, give a public acknowledgement and a comment in the code stating 'based on code by <blah>' and perhaps a link to original where it was found.

We learn from our past mistakes. We move forward. We become better (poeple/programmers/...) for it.

[tyguy]

I'm not going to accept him plagiarism my addon and then when questioned about how to modify it, he says he has quit GMod to avoid anymore questions. Not to mention you taking out my name at the top of my code where it says

--Made by Tyguy

You just decided to switch it to

//Made by Mr Apple.

Or should I mention the 'pay me with karma for something I didn't do besides copy and paste'

http://forums.ulyssesmod.net/index.php/topic,6196
Even look at how descriptive he makes his post sound, knowing how to edit it exactly as I told people how to in my facepunch thread (the 'friend' sent it to me bullshit really made me laugh, thanks).

The topic should be removed and he should be banned, that should be the least that happens.

[Bite That Apple]

I was being very nice at the beginning, but due to the fact that you've decided to harass me on my steam account in which was recovered recently (and I really don't want to deal with trolls or "rude people"), now you've annoyed me.

Though, nether the less, upon request of Mr. President/Megiddo/JamminR, I will either remove the 'managed version' of that addon , or give credit where needed.


JamminR, as you said, this 'what happened here', could make people second guess all my work, and make people think I didn't make some of my other addon, they can believe what they want. I will admit to 'plagiarism' to this addon only (unless you count my utime set addon as plagiarism too, as I went and looked through the utime code :p). I know what I did, and it doesn't matter to me, if people feel that I don't write my own code, they're free to not download from here.


Tyguy, I never said, "made by mr. apple on any of those files", I did those comments as a base point for me to know the difference all the files. I still do it to this day, as I've gotten used to doing that now.

Secondly, the karam thing was actually added around may of last year I believe, I changed all my addon's thread topics to say that, and generally all my addons use the same format too, as it's a really easy way to display things.

Thirdly, please reframe from using inappropriate words, such as you did to insult me.
 
On the same topic, you Tyguy claim that the instructions are quite similar, which makes me think that you're raging beyond belief as I actually wrote my own version of the instructions, as I have never seen the OP.

My Post:


Your Post: